Vapaudun sellaisesta uskomuksesta, että aina vain enemmän on paras tavoite. - Anja Kulovesi -

Keräsin kokemuksia muualta maailmasta talvella 2002. Löysin ne, kun laitoin googlen nyyssihakuun sanan: E621. Yllätyin, kuinka samantapaisia kokemuksia on niin monella! Toisaalta on hyvä, että en löytänyt sivua aikaisemmin - ne olisi voineet vaikuttaa omiin käsityksiini.  Oli parempi löytää nuo aineet vaivojen avulla, vaikka siihen liittyykin paljon kärsimystä...  Lainaan teksteistä muutamia. Jos jollekin natriumglutamaatti aiheuttaa oireita, saman saa aikaan kaikki  muutkin arominvahventeet - seuraavista kommenteista voi päätellä, että me emme olekaan erikoistapauksia...

Olen koonnut luettelon kartettavista "öllöistä" kirjasta "Ravintomme lisäaineet". Osan löysin vaikutusten perusteella, muistaakseni vielä tässä järjestyksessä. Keräsin tuoteselosteita talteen jonkin aikaa:

E621    l. natriumglutamaatti, glutamaatti, proteiinihyrdolysaatti, arominvahvenne, hiiva-autolysaatti ja hydrolyzed-- loppuiset aineet. 

Yllätys oli suuri, kun löysin kaikki aineet samasta lisäaineryhmästä, arominvahventeiden kohdalta. Listastani näyttää puuttuvan monta - amerikkalaisten "öllöjä" on 40 eri merkkistä (siis oli silloin, vuosia sitten...)! Lainauslupaa ei ole, mutta koska aihe on sama, uskon, että eivät pahastu sitaattilaimoista.

 

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Monosodium Glutamate is responsible for my 8 year old daughters asthma and having gone into anaphylactic shock.  There are presently 40 different names to represent MSG on food labels.  They range from Hydrolized Proteins to Natural flavorings.  

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I have had severe GI problems related to MSG for many years. I think this came on suddenly, but I'm not certain because I didn't know what was causing it until about ten years ago.

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In the UK, 'Bisto' is a brand of RHM Foods Ltd. It is the market leader Gravy Granule product.

I have just checked and found that it contains E621 (Mono Sodium Glutamate), as well as E635, Caramel (unspecified sub-type) and Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil.

No wonder it triggers my migraine! I know I checked the ingredients years ago, and it did not contain the MSG at that time.

Although I can avoid using this product at home (are there alternatives without the additives?), the major problem is restaurants! I expect that many use the same brand of product, even if it does come in industrial tins!

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After eight years of multiple health problems and esp chronic fatigue and PAIN, thanks to several books and one great book "The Food Allergy Book" by Dr. William Walsh ISBN#0-9631544-7-8, I am cured of an unkown MSG intolerance....in fact according to the biochemical reaction of msg in the body this problem is probably inherint to every living, breathing mammal on the face of the earth.

Wake up America!!! The major food corps have found a loop hole in the FDA's ruling and are adding msg to your food without having to identify it on the label as such.  They are adding it as a "natural" ingredient as it it is naturally found in corn... so they can add corn and thus preserve foods with the msg found in corn without labeling it as msg.  And corn comes in many names like: dextrose, maltose, dextrin, aspartame, xanthan gum, zein, and the obvious - corn syrup, corn starch or modified food starch, food starch or just starch and the list goes on and on...  So far ten in my family are now well from multiple health problems due to hidden sources of msg now known and avoided.  This discovery has transpired within our family over the past year with hours of research.

Other recommened books are

"The Whole Way to Allergy Relief and Prevention" by Dr. Jacqueline Krohn ISBN#0-88179-036-2 and

"The Complete Guide to Food Allergy and Intolerance" by Dr. Jonathan Brostoff and

Linda Gamlin ISBN#0-517-57756-9.

From these books we put the puzzle together and the final piece was Dr. Walsh's book.

We were diagnosed with

By now you are thinking...this person is crazy...well after all the realted medical problems suffered that could be possible, however, we no longer have any of them as long as we avoid msg (which includes processed corn products, some fermented products, and other items listed in Dr. Walsh's book).  Those who are now well from all or some of the above medical problems and other symptoms include my sister, her children, my children, my mother, my grandchildren, my brother and myself.  Hope this info helps -- what I would have given to have known it eight years ago...

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here's something from the horse's mouth - I (and my mother) are MSG-intolerant.

However, in my case, it goes farther than that. I am full-blown allergic to MSG, to the point that I nearly died about eight years ago in a US-chain steak house from a steak laden with the stuff. This was confirmed about a year later when I went for allergy tests at the behest of my employer when I was suffering what seemed to be a flu that wasn't going away.

Needless to say, I had to do a complete change in my diet - to the point where I now have to check every label of any foodstuffs commercially manufactured for any sign of MSG. This includes just about every soup Campbells makes (except for tomato and beef with vegetables and barley), cheaply made meat pies, flavoured potato and snack chips, etc. It also means being careful at just about every restuarant I go to, especially Chinese restuarants. (Mandarin and Ho-Lee-Chow excepted, as they don't use MSG).

This has had some benefits, though - I've concentrated more of fresh stuff, like vegetables and fruit. Not only that, but I found that some of the extreme mood swings I suffered in my childhood and teen years (nothing really violent, but I tended to be overly sensitive and would go into fits of anger and/or sobbing at the slightest provocation) came much more under control so I could make some adjustments to my mental outlook. In fact, if my problems do recur, most often it turns out that I'd inadvertently eaten something that contained MSG.

MSG intolerance is NOT an urban legend, believe you me. I have it, my mother has it, and so do many other people I know.

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Excuse me. This is bunk. Pure and simple. I'm allergic to MSG and boycott restaurants using it, regardless of ethnicity of food served. The symptoms aren't hard to spot and I adamantly won't return to a restaurant where I've been served food containing it. I have data from my doctor detailing how MSG effects some people. There's certainly scientific evidence to support MSG allergies.

My point is that medical researchers not funded by Campbells soup or any of the other huge food providers using MSG have detailed research indicating that some segment of the population is in fact allergic to MSG.

You wanna cite experts, cite those who don't USE the damn stuff, please.

Why am I so angry about this? Simple. MSG make me sick. If it doesn't bother you, fine. But please don't pass Narsai David off as an expert on this. If he's too lazy to cook soups and sauces to a satisfactory taste and feels the need to add MSG in order to improve the taste, let him also put a sign in his restaurant indicating that along with Basil or Paprika, he uses MSG.

As a further indicator: many of us who are sensitive to sulfites (no longer allowed to be used in fresh food preparation) are allergic to MSG.

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>To be sensitive to the "noise level" of MSG that can be found in ordinary supermarket items must be pure hell.<

Indeed. I have to be extremely careful or I wind up with the Headache from Hell, lasting several days in extreme cases. I'll know pretty quickly, though, whether I've been had, as I get a series of warm flashes within an hour or so after consuming an amount above my own noise threshold. The warmer and more  frequent the flashes, the more severe the symptoms.

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I don't know about MSG being a preservative, but I do know that it is a flavor inhancer. It is the only ingredient in Accent.

I suffer from migraines (sp?), and I discovered that I would get a migraine after eating chinese food (sometimes while eating it depending on how much of the stuff is in the food). I'm not sure if it can cause depression, but I do know that after I've had one of my migraines I have many days of recovery and a listless, vague, sence of what is around me. I guess you could say that it does "enhance" depressive feelings. At least they do me. I would advise anyone who suffers from depression unipolar or bipolar to keep away from the stuff.

What a terrible thing to turn a sugar beet into.

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I second the support for Cafergot. After 30 years of headaches, it finally gave me enough non-headache time to systematically discover my triggers. It works great for me, except in the cases where I have a heavy dose of toxin (trigger) which is not metabolized yet. This is common if I get too much alcohol (which is sometimes 1 drink) or MSG.

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I have also found I cannot tolerate MSG. I get headaches from MSG, but sometimes the headaches are severe and have caused me to vomit. I avoided Chinese food for years because I would usually get sick from it. Now that consumers are more aware of MSG, I have been able to find Chinese restaurants that do not use MSG. In my local area, there are 3 Chinese restaurants. 1 of them never uses MSG, so that is the only one I patronize. Other things to watch out for....Ranch style salad dressing almost always contains MSG. Many potato chips and snack foods contain MSG. Frozen convenience foods often contain it. You really have to read the labels. But as it goes by several different names, it is hard to always find out. (Well, until the headache kicks in.)

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When I am subjected to MSG, I have a tendency to swell up like a balloon! Not only that, I experience shortness of breath and my face gets real blotchy.

Many asian restaurants cater to very specific dietary concerns. For religious / spiritual reasons, many asians cannot eat ANY preservatives of any kind. If you specify NO MSG at the restaurants you frequent, you will find that they will get used to your needs rather quickly. ESPECIALLY if you tell them that you are allergic to it. No restaurant owner wants to be taken to co...

I can tell immediately if a dish contains MSG. If someone trys to pass it off on me after I've specifically asked them not to, then management needs to know about.

Restaurants that serve up fresh food should not have a problem accomodating your request. MSG brightens up "old" vegetables and gives them a glossy appearance. Who wants to eat old food anyway?

Bottomline. Make sure your needs are known and don't feel bad about speaking up about it.

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For years, I didn't know what was giving me migraine headaches and a terrible upset stomach. When I discovered it was MSG, I had a hard time. It was in everything! Now it is easier because I don't eat all those processed foods anymore, but I still find it, even in canned organic products. For example, Westbrae canned organic beans have "autolyzed yeast," which is a form of MSG. It goes by many names. I have a list somewhere, and I'll post it when I find it.

By the way, when you find a restaurant that is unwilling to be concerned about MSG allergy, just tell them you have high blood pressure or a heart condition, and you MUST limit your sodium intake or you could become very ill. They usually listen to that, and may go out of their way to prepare something for you.

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In response to your posting about MSG,  for me personally, MSG triggers my asthma and also raises my blood pressure.

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MSG is a flavour enhancer. Basically it is salt. It looks like a fine white powder. My whole family is allergic to it. Get the sweats, dizzy, headache sleeplessness... and once I passed out in a Chinese restaurant because of it.  I read the labels and avoid foods with it in. It is used in Chinese restaurants a lot. Ask them not to and they wont use it in the stirfrys. But the MSG is usually already added to things like egg rolls and spring rolls and pre made stuff like that.

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Subj:  Re:msg/aliases Date:  96-06-26 From:  LACY1893

I've had migraines for over 20 years.  My how time flies when your having fun! The thing that has made the most dramatic improvement in my frequency of headaches was reading the book "In Bad Taste...MSG"  After following the  advice in the book, I have cut down on my headaches by 50%. By the way, my neurologist, bless his heart, says there is no way MSG can make me have a headache; but, I know better!!!

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Dear xxxx,

I'm mainly writing to you to say THANKS.  Your work on the net has helped me more than you can imagine.  I am Australian but am living in South Korea, teaching in a small university here in a far rural area. For you information, here is my experience with one of your favourites, MSG.

Ever since we arrived here, 2 years ago, I have had a dreadful insomnia problem.  3 or 4 nights a week I'd been awake until 4, 5 in the morning, my head racing, ears ringing, muscles jittery. (particularly front of my thighs, almost sore they were so tense).  I tried to link the problem with everything.  I knew it had to be related to Korea because everytime I left the country on holidays, problem disappeared.   Since we came to Korea, I've gained 10 kilos, and combined with sleep problems I was starting to become extremely depressed about everything in general. My periods started to be really irregular, and with mood swings, weight gain etc I thought problem must be hormonal.

I had thought of MSG early on:  they sell the stuff in various sizes up to 5 kilo bags in all the local supermarkets and grocery stores, in fact, they sell more msg than salt.  I tried avoiding Korean food but it wasn't a total ban, and it didn't work.  I thought it could have been reaction to plastic wallpaper and plastic flooring in our apartment, stress (but I wasn't stressed), sleeping on the floor, dust, I was even starting to think of electromagnetic fields, I was desperate as I was walking around like a zombie for lack of sleep and if problem hadn't been solved I think I would have had to give up here.

Anyway, I went to a western (American) doctor in Seoul a few weeks ago, as a final resort.  I told him my symptoms and even mentioned I suspected MSG, but he didn't see any reason to think about food. (when do western doctors ever think about causes?)  He gave me anti-depressants and vitamin B tablets.  I came home and couldn't bare the thought of taking the anti-dpressants, and in a final act of desperation, searched for MSG on the net, which we were only just connected to.  I found your MSG article.

Everything made sense when I read it. I'm female, 28 y.o.  I'm asthmatic and have a few allergies, suffer from mood swings and hypoglycemia.  I was diagnosed a couple of years ago with fibromyalgia, another diagnosis I rejected and something I managed to make myself feel better over by getting some acupuncture. (now I wonder if  that was caused by aspartame, I was drinking a couple of cans of diet coke a day at that stage, I've just read you aspartame article). Your description of who should avoid MSG fitted me perfectly.

So after reading your article,  I just stopped eating Korean food, period. Within 2 days problem solved! In past few weeks I've slept every night except two nights where I ate Korean food.  As I said, I'd thought of MSG before but trouble was sometimes I'd not be able to sleep and I'd eaten home cooked western food all day, I hadn't realised effects could hang around for 72 hours.

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I have sensitivity to MSG, and simply avoid the stuff - no flavored chips, reading ingredients on frozen foods, no fried rice or egg rolls at Chinese restaurants (more goes in this than anything else) I can get by eating at these restaurants if I just avoid those two foods, but I still cannot eat there two or more daysin a row, I have to watch the freguency of Chinese  food unless they specify in the restaurant NO MSG. Then I can merrily eat there as much as I want or as funds permit.  I also avoid some processed meats like hotdogs balogne, which is rather easy for me because I don't like these foods, but I can't even eat them to be polite,  You'd be surprised how often this comes up on camp-outs, parties, etc.  I'm just considered eccentric about what I'll put in my mouth, but better that than hogging the restroom the whole night about an hour after ingesting these foods!  The only sure-cure I've found is avoidance.  I feel if I do get the runs, I want the poison out of my system as soon as possible, so no Keopectate!

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.... Small quantities of MSG will give me a very bad bilateral vasscular headadche the following day or days.

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Here you go, and remember, read your labels. I know being off of this stuff has drematically changed my family. We stay away from; Red dyes# 3, 27, 30, & 40 Yellow dyes#5 & 6 nitrates, and nitrites aspartame and Nutrasweet Monosodium Glutamate The FDA does not require lableing for MSG disguised foods, please be aware of the following:

Additives that frequently contain MSG

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Yes...along with the people who don't have such a sensistivity reacting with disbelief (once I had to show someone that I really could tell which foods did and did not have MSG, merely on the basis of which ones didn't smell like vomit).  I'm sensitive to a lot of "flavor enhancers", including MSG, sulphites sometimes give me a problem, and garlic and NutraSweet also give me problems (in case you're trying to correlate triggers; it might be a general cause, also if you have an MSG allergy/sensitivity, you might want to be careful about a garlic treatment.  I'm no doctor, though.)

There are some products out there without MSG, although some use other MSG-like substances, which also seem to set me off, so it might be the sodium.  As a practical matter, avoid anything which seems to trigger you, regardless of what the labels say.

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My mother has recently developed a problem when eating foods with MSG... she becomes nauseous, vomits, very sick to her stomach. This is something that happened suddenly, without warning, and she has to be very careful not to eat anything containing MSG, sometimes difficult in restaurants...

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If you have any sort of list of people that have reactions to MSG or can forward to anyone on your MSG page, you may want to know that I suffer migraines and vomiting from MSG and that I can easily tell by my reactions whether food I consume contained the substance (blindly).

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MSG is my enemy.

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I have found that I get sick from monosodium glutamate and now skip food with msg with no problem with one exeption.  Could someone please post recipes for taco seasoning mix.  I cant find any without it and dying for good ol' tacos. Thanks, Jay

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My biggest trigger is MSG. Other things are also triggers, but I have been able to control my choices and situations.  As he says, doing without somthing is no deprivation if it avoids the migraine result.  By reading labels carefully and asking at restaurants about contents, I am able to avoid MSG. Cracker Barrel and Olive Garden restaurtants have been very accommodating, as are most of our local restaurants, with chefs knowledgeable and/or checking labels of their ingredients. Campbells Soup Co is now supplying products without MSG and will send consumers information about their products as will Kraft Co. (800 phone numbers are on labels.)

Andy wrote in message news:

"Reactions range from mild to very severe. Indeed, the symptoms that Dr. Ho Man Kwok reported in the first published study in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1968, for example headache and flushing of the skin, were relatively mild. However, later studies have documented more serious and sustained physical problems such as asthma, acute headaches, and life-threatening heart irregularities. Deaths have been reported. Other symptoms that might seem to be psychological in origin have also been traced to MSG consumption: extreme mood swings, irritability, depression, and even paranoia. Suicide increases may well be related to this neurotropic drug.

Many cases of severe problems induced by MSG have been documented by physicians and more have been reported in the medical literature where they may be studied by professionals. But the vast majority of MSG-sensitive people are not aware of the problems this substance may be creating in their lives: the fruitless visits to physicians who cannot explain their complaints. Asthma is a particular concern with a rising death rate which tracks increases in MSG use in the United States.

A questionnaire study (reported in Federation Proceedings** in April, 1977) using a large sampling of subjects done by Dr. Liane Reif-Lehrer showed that 30% of adults and between ten percent and 20% of children have some reaction to foods containing MSG. This means that many millions of lives are adversely affected by this substance.

Monosodium glutamate is found in most of the food prepared by major fast-food chains such as Kentucky Fried Chicken. With the popularity of these foods among children and teenagers, it could be a factor in "Agent Blue" to which the National Institute of Mental Health researchers attribute the recent rise in child and teen depressive syndromes and suicide. Behavioral and physical problems of children, such as incontinence and seizures, as well as Attention Deficit Disorder, have been diagnosed and successfully treated as MSG reactions.

MSG was removed from baby foods in the late 1960s without much comment. Dr. Jean Mayer, the noted Harvard food scientist, remarked at a women's meeting of the National Press Club that "with even the slightest presumption of guilt I would take the damn stuff out of baby food." Gerber, Heinz, and Beechnut almost immediately announced that they would stop using MSG in baby foods. However, infants still get MSG from ordinary table foods, and may be ingesting it in various broths added to infant and baby foods.

The body of scientific facts now has reached a level where the findings and case reports must be brought to public attention. At least 20 million people in the United States and more than 100 million people worldwide react to MSG. This means that although some people can ingest MSG with impunity, many others are being damaged physically and emotionally by the unknowing use of this flavor enhancer which for them has potent drug effects.

In Bad Taste: The MSG Syndrome is the story of the adverse effects of monosodium glutamate on the health and well being of some consumers. It details the studies of dedicated scientists who have warned against MSG use. It explores and economy partly dependent on MSG production and use; and how psychologists, physicians, clinics, schools, and lawyers have become involved in the problem due to its widespread effects.

Laboratory and field studies describe a consistent picture: 30% of the population experience some symptoms from MSG in amounts commonly added to foods. Clinical data show that some of these individuals develop symptoms that are not mild or transient, but intense and dangerous; possibly, although less commonly, developing chronic long-term and disabling problems. More and more individuals will be affected as the use of MSG continues to increase. MSG intolerance is not an allergic reaction but a true drug effect. A high enough dose can affect anyone; and many more people are reaching that symptom-causing dose in MSG consumption. The MSG syndrome is not a bizarre reactions to some ethnic food (i.e., Chinese) as some people still believe.

People who react to MSG must first identify their reactions and then learn to eat food without this additive. This book will serve to guide the consumer through the supermarket aisles on preventive shopping trips and provide tasty recipes which eliminate MSG from the diet. A discussion of restaurants and dining offers tips on avoiding MSG, which may be found even in the finest kitchens. There is also a review of fast-food chain favorites containing MSG.

People who react severely to MSG experience almost continual distressing and health-endangering physical and psychological symptoms. Knowing how to avoid this flavor enhancer can dramatically change lives. In order to unravel the story of MSG, we must start with the beginning: MSG history. (Those readers concerned with MSG reactions may want to go directly to Chapter 3 and read about the history of MSG at a later time.)

*Hydrolyzing vegetable protein is one of the chemical methods of producing MSG. This mixture, containing up to 40% MSG, is listed among the ingredients of many commonly used processed foods.
 **The Federation of the American Society for Experimental Biology

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>MSG, or monosodium glutamate, is a flavor enhancer found in some foods. For me and many other migraine sufferers, MSG causes migraines. [...] It is also found in tomatoes because it occurs naturally in tomatoes.<

Where did you get that from?  Glutamate is produced by the breakdown of proteins, and there isn't a lot of protein in a tomato.  I have never seen anyone else suggest that tomatoes contained enough of it to worry about.

On the other hand it's produced by slow cooking of protein foods, so even without adding it from an artificial source, your food could still contain significant amounts of it.

>MSG is listed on the food labels as 'monosodium glutamate', 'glutamate', or 'glumic acid'.  Hope this info can benefit someone here.

Glutamic acid.  MSG strictly is monosodium glutamate (E621) but E620, E622, and E623 are other forms of glutamate with similar side-effects on susceptible people.

Jack Campin: food intolerance data and recipes,

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Most people at a glance group the terms, GLUTEN and GELLATIN together. Gellatin is derived from bones, usually pig's bones. Gluten is a starchy paste derived from flour." ann

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Edellinen oli lainaus jonkin kommentista, mutta koko tekstiä ei löytynyt.

 

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Alas, hardly anybody took the hint, except Experiment 621 and maybe some of the neutral-kaon guys.  I like to think that E621's error bars on the Cascade Particle mass were a tiny bit smaller because the operators thought of the experimenters more fondly.  Like many of my conjectures, this is impossible to prove."

Bill Higgins    Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory

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>Jokin niissä oleva suolan kaltainen lisäaine on monissa maissa:  kielletty. On kai vaikutuksiltaan epämääräinen ja se laittaa  haluamaan niitä lisää.

Lisätietoa verkossa:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/rahola/sanastot/n.html#natr

http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/msg.html

http://ificinfo.health.org/brochure/msg.htm

http://ificinfo.health.org/review/ir-msg.htm

 

Jumping into the thread mid-flow (what do you lot mean by starting a migraine thread when I am away for a couple of days?) - once the migraine has started, the stomach usually shuts down (esp if you get the vomiting with the migraine), in which case it's an idea to get a prescription from your GP for something like Maxalon.  Maxalon reduces nausea and stops the vomiting, and also allows the stomach to absorb stuff again - best thing is to take the Maxalon, then wait half an hour before taking analgesics.  

"My main trigger is added MSG in processed foods (especially in cheap take-away chinese food) - look for "flavour enhancer", "monosodium glutamate", and/or "E621" on food labels.  Odds are good that if I eat (for example) a packet of Pringles, then the next day is a migraine full one :/  Though it does tend to be more like there is a list of maybe 3-4 things that can trigger a migraine, but _not_ just one of them at a time.  It's usually something like high stress _plus_ MSG laden food, or hormonal changes (usually first day of my period) plus lack of sleep, or any combination of the various triggers.

I had my first migraine at about age 10, and have them at varying intervals. Sometimes only once or twice a year, and sometimes at least twice a week.  I can now cope with almost _any_ level of headache except for the "if I move I want to die" level of pain with a full-blown "I woke up this way so taking anything is pointless" migraine.

And now that I have even suggested that it has been a while since I had one, I am sure to be in agony at some point in the next week or so.  Sod's Law really."

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Dit is van een andere pagina:

"Often referred to as MSG, Monosodium glutamate is a white crystalline substance, the sodium salt of the amino acid glutamic acid (E620).

First identified as a flavour enhancer in 1908 by Professor Kikunae Ikeda of Tokyo University, Japan, who found that soup stocks made from Laminaria japonica, a seaweed which, in Japan, had been added to soups for centuries, contained high levels of the substance.

His discovery led to MSG becoming the first flavour enhancer to be used commercially. Originally production was from seaweed although it is now produced using a bacterial fermentation process with molasses (around 90% of production) or starch (10%) as carbon sources and ammonium salts as nitrogen sources.

It is used in broths, soups, flavoured (and occasionally plain) crisps, flavouring and spice blends, gravies, cooked and cured meats, pork pies, pork sausages, sauces and in other combinations. It is also used to enhance the taste of tobacco and has been used medically to treat hepatic coma.

Ikeda decided that the unique taste, which he called umami, (delicious), was so different from the four basic tastes (bitter, salty, sour and sweet) that it was in fact a fifth taste. This view is still widely held although others say it actually only enhances the four basic tastes."

 

Glutamat påverkar hjärnan så att den blir missväxt. Glutamat är  förbjuden i barnmat i vissa länder, hur det är i Sverige vet jag inte. MVH Klas

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>Meines Wissens ist Natriumglutamat immer wieder mal ins Gerede gekommen, weil empfindliche Menschen auf hohe Dosen (z.B. nach einem Essen beim"Chinesen") mit Nackenschmerzen und ähnlichen Symptomen reagieren können. Wie gesundheitsschädlich Glutamat wirklich ist, hängt wie bei allen Stoffen von der Dosis ab.<

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> Salut, > Morlhach et Jean-Pierre a écrit:

> > Tant que les petits virus ne mutent pas et que  les bactéries n'évoluent pas. Et à condition que l'homme *régule la croissance de la population*.<<

> * Pourrais-tu nous expliquer la collusion des faits et la proportion convenable selon laquelle vos compétences et compétiteurs de la santé pourraient maîtriser un phénomène épidémique?
 PS. ... car par ta "bouche" j'entends une fois de plus un discours post-malthusien qui ne m'enchante guerre Ô! Grand Régulateur Anti-Biotique sûrement un Gand frère du glatamate de sodium, ( E621) bien connu pour ralentir l'activité neuronale :o))))))))))

jean-pierre

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Hakusanana oli vain E621... ja aikaa siitä on jo vuosia...-Kuinka paljon kommentteja löytyisi muilla arominvahventeisiin liittyvillä hakusanoilla - tai muilla kielillä? Aikaisemmin minulla oli vain modeemiyhteys, jolla saatoin tehdä vain rajalliset asiat, kuten sivujen päivittämisen ja sähköpostin käytön. Nyt olisi mahdollista koluta aiheen ympärillä enemmänkin, mutta ajasta tulee pian pulaa;-)  Nämä sivut vaativat siivousta... ym. Montako tämäntapaista sivustoa maailmalta löytyisi, jos osaisin / jaksasin / viitsisin / hakea kunnolla? Mitä sillä edes olisi merkitystä?

sivu on osa suurempaa kokonaisuutta

Sivun alkuun